‘Bihar politicians are playing games against each other’

Your party’s stand on the Marathi-north Indian spat was not very clear. Your party colleague, Praful Patel, had talked about safeguarding Marathi culture….
Sharad Pawar:  My complaint is against the media and some Bihar leaders. The issue is not so serious at the Maharashtra end as has been made out by them. There have been only three incidents. It is correct that two boys at one place and six at another, who were taking the railway recruitment exams, were beaten. There were 52 centres (for exams). At 50 nothing happened.

The railway authorities had told the police to send the police force (to these centres) and the police reached there around 10.30 am. The exams were to be held at 11 am. The incident happened at around 9, with some students reaching there early.

There are two important things  here. While it is true that these students were beaten, they appeared for their examinations. The second question is how were the cameras made available at both places when they were beaten up? Nowadays those who would like to do mischief go along with cameras to get publicity. When I contacted some channels, they told me that they had got intimation that they should send their cameras. This way, they said, their TRP ratings go up.

The second  incident was a dispute in the railways near Kopoli. One person was attacked and he died. But the question to ask is: is this a generalized problem? A lot of statements have come, and a picture is being painted that the whole of Maharashtra is against north Indians.

There has been a huge outcry about the killing of Rahul Raj, who hijacked a bus in protest. Could the police have nabbed him instead of killing him?
SP: That is the third incident and I am coming to that. An investigation is going on into that incident, and the chief secretary is enquiring into it. It is proved that the person was carrying a weapon. He was also showing it (to the bus passengers). As per the police report, he fired one bullet on the leg of one of the passengers. He also fired 3-4 rounds in the air. In that situation, the bus driver took the bus outside a police station. According to the police version– I was not there –the police said they gave a warning to him and waited for 10 minutes for him to leave his weapon and come down. It was only after that they acted. The police says that if they had allowed him to kill passengers outside a police station, there would have been a huge uproar. It was not as if the police officers knew which state or place he belonged to. But I say the investigation is going on, let the facts come.

There have been allegations that the NCP and the Congress are propping up Raj Thackeray to get at the Shiv Sena, just as the Congress had tacitly supported the Shiv Sena in the early years to break the CPI and Datta Samant’s union?
SP: Firstly, Raj Thackeray contested local elections and managed to get only around 40 out of more than 5,000 seats. That shows his strength.

Secondly, why should we give importance to him? His attack is not on the Shiv Sena, it is against the Congress and us, against the Chief Minister and the deputy Chief Minister. I don’t think he has the capacity to create a problem for the Shiv Sena. What I know of the Sena, no leader who has left it, has been able to affect it.  Its core remains intact.

What is your stand as a party on this issue? Do you welcome north Indians into the state?
SP: Absolutely. We welcome all.  My party gave representation to north Indians in government. When I was CM, there were always one, two or three north Indians in my ministry. There have been 10-12 MLAs in the Maharashtra Assembly and around 15 corporators in the municipal corporations. There are also Gujaratis and South Indians.

Except for Madhu Limaye and George Fernandes, who were accepted in other states from where they contested elections, which are the leaders who are accepted by other states? How can anybody say that the Marathi community is against north Indians? This is injustice.

One should not forget that Maharashtra produced leaders like Lokmanya Tilak, Babasaheb Ambedkar, Phule, YB Chavan and Dange, who thought about national interest first. They never took a parochial line. That is also the overall thinking of the people of the state.

You had suggested holding the railway recruitment exams in the local areas…
SP: There has been a suggestion from our side that these exams should be conducted on a zonal basis. The railways have separate zones. If thousands of Bihari boys are coming  to another state to take exams, and these are for class 3 or 4 jobs, and the total number of posts is only 100, they spend at least a couple of days on travel, and then there are costs of stay in Mumbai which is not cheap. These are mostly poor boys and they must have to spend at least Rs 4,000-5,000 on their trip.

I would suggest that these exams could be taken in centres like Hajipur or Patna. The IAS and the IPS written exams are also done on a zonal basis.

What do you feel about the decision of the JD (U) Bihar MPs to resign in protest. This will put pressure on the RJD and LJP also to follow suit…
SP: The Bihar MPs have resigned. They have a right to take their own decisions. I agree with George Fernandes, who has resigned as a JD (U) MP. But he has asked why the Rajya Sabha MPs are not stepping down. In Mumbai the Marathi speaking people are only 24 per cent. Show me any other state capital where 74 per cent of the people belong to other states. Is this not tolerance? We have built up a cosmopolitan culture in Mumbai.

In a city where the population from the rest of India is 74 per cent, if someone attacks, say,  a Gujarati-run shop, would you have  the entire Gujarati leadership come together to see the Prime Minister and demand that the chief minister of Maharashtra be removed?

Because elections are around the corner, a disproportionate importance is being given to this issue. They (Bihar politicians) are playing their political games, against each other, at the cost of Maharashtra. It is these kinds of actions which are giving importance to Raj Thackeray, who has no base otherwise.

There was wide-scale violence when Raj Thackeray was arrested…
SP: When Raj Thackeray was arrested, there were incidents of violence but it was directed more at government property. Over 10,000 people were arrested. Do you know how many cases have been filed against Raj Thackeray? There are more than 80 cases (against him). Show me another state where the police has taken such action?

But he was released on bail immediately.
SP: He was picked up under non-bailable sections but if the court gives him bail, what can the government do?

You were amongst the first to call for a ban on the Bajrang Dal. Do you feel vindicated now that the ATS in Maharashtra is zeroing in on fundamentalist Hindus being behind terror attacks?
SP: I had said that action should be taken against Hindu fundamentalists. I first saw literature in Marathi propagating violence against the government, police, minorities. For instance, in the highly circulated magazine Chitralekha in July 2008, and in Dainik Prabhat. There were organizations calling for a ‘dharma kranti’.

But the BJP is calling this action a pre-election stunt  of the Congress and NCP?
SP: We don’t have anything to say. A terrorist does not have any religion. When the police has started investigating, and is taking action, and if any political party takes objection, it is unfair and unpatriotic.

Are you saying that it is unpatriotic of the BJP to make such a charge?

SP: Of course. Why should we interfere in the process of investigations?

Your party has sought a 50:50 division of seats with the Congress in Maharashtra for the  Lok Sabha elections?
SP: We held preliminary talks with the Congress – we have yet to have a detailed discussion. What we have suggested is what I suggested when I was leading the Congress in Maharashtra and Sitaram Kesri was Congress president. It was to take along the like-minded parties, and contest collectively. We won 42 out of 48 seats. I feel we should follow the same route today. That there should be no division of the secular vote. First we should accommodate the smaller secular parties and then divide the remaining seats between us.

What is your response to the allegation made by Margaret Alva that money was paid for tickets in Karnataka?
SP:  I don’t know if it is true or not. All I can say is that in my party, there is no question of taking money for giving tickets. In fact, once a candidate is selected, we give full support from the party.

Much has been made of the delay in US President-elect Barack Obama talking to our Prime Minister. Do you see it as a personal snub to Dr Manmohan Singh because he was so profuse in his praise of George Bush or to India as a country? Or neither?
SP: There is nothing like a snub. The Prime Minister said there had been an exchange of correspondence between him and Obama. Obama has not even taken office yet. Why expect him to talk now? All this is being given undue importance because of our election.

Obama has also talked about sending Bill Clinton as his special envoy to Kashmir. Your comments?
SP: I don’t think anybody will accept that. This is a bilateral issue between India and Pakistan. Nobody should try and bring their dirty nose into this.

As agriculture minister, how do you assess the impact of the financial meltdown  taking place globally?
SP: The revival of agriculture had been my government’s policy but it could not be done. There has been a turnaround in the last two years and the growth rate is above 4 per cent. We have had no rains in Karnataka, Maharashtra, Gujarat and Andhra Pradesh upto September-end which has affected the kharif crop. But I am confident that we will make up the kharif shortfall. That is why our overall growth rate will be good this year, around 7 per cent. I am not an economist but I understand what is good in the field.

Are you firm about not contesting for the next Lok Sabha from Baramati?
SP:  I don’t want to come into the Lok Sabha. You know, I will complete 43 years in Parliament and I have fought 14 elections. But there is pressure from my party to stand from elsewhere. They have suggested other constituencies.